in a real fight, i don't think that grappling is all that it's cracked up to be. in a real fight i agree all fights end up on the ground, but not in the same way most people think. i think if you hit or takedown your opponent, and he falls to the ground, you shouldn't go in and try to do an armbar; if i was in that situation i would get him down, kick him in the chest, and then RUN. if this is true then grappling isn't really necessary for self-defense. what do you think?
All fights end up on the ground; agree or disagree?
Dude youre not a puss for wanting to quickly rid of the comfrontation, any martial artist will tell you that it is best to never fight unless you have to. And if you end up having to, that you should try to get away at any possible moment. Youre not a puss, anyone who says that you are is probably someone that is either a punk or someone that never got a chance to get away.
And yeah 95% of all fights end up on the ground, however all fights start out standing. And most street fights last about 30 seconds or less, theyre usually very fast and simple. Things like submissions or martial arts arent really used in a street fight because if you know either one, you are more than likely to be the one to walk away or not start a fight. And if you do start a fight knowing these things, then one day someone will come along that knows them as well and will more than likely defeat you in a bad manner just because you started the fight. Think of it like a code that almost all martial artists live by.
And you wouldnt want to kick someone in their chest while they were on the ground anyways, you could easily damage your foor and or ankle. And dont kick them in the face unless you dont have a problem possibly taking someone life. You simply walk away once they hit the ground, this will let them know that you can defend yourself if you have to, but that you dont want to fight. Usually it will end right there. Then again I dont follow those rules, wish I did, but I dont.
If I am in a fight, and I get someone who is trying to attack me down to the ground, I will more than likely do a soccer kick to their face, stomp on their rib cage, straddle them while beating their face in the ground, sit them up against a wall or vehicle and knee them in the face repeatedly, etc. If someone attacks me, I am the kind of person that wants to make an example out of them. And by living by this rule, I havent been in a fight in years. I still say that it is best to walk away, too many lawsuits and drama queen witnesses now a days.
Reply:What you do is you brawl it out until one of you can't get up anymore. No matter what that takes (minus a kick to the nads).
Reply:Ground fighting is essential to street fighting. If your opponent gets on top, you want to know how to get him off of you.
Reply:I think that gravity tends to play a role!
Reply:Grappling is the best form because you end up in control. Also grappling arts teach unbalancing and breakfalls more extensively than striking arts. I study Ju Jitsu (Traditional) and even though we are taught strikes and weapons as well, in my experience nothing ends a fight faster than twisiting a guys wrist into a pretzel.
Reply:Often you can take an opponent out before it even gets to that stage. Also, if you have multiple opponents to deal with, you certainly don't want the fight to devolve into a ground combat, because it becomes easier for multiple opponents to overpower you.
Actually, even if all fights did end up on the ground, you would still do good by doing as much damage to your opponent before it reached that point anyway. The more you can hurt your opponent beforehand (and avoid getting hurt), the easier it will be to take out your opponent on the ground.
With that said, I don't think ground fighting can always be avoided, especially against skilled opponents. It's better to know ground combat on top of striking/blocking skills.
Reply:If attacked, taking a fight to the ground is very stupid. If the attacker has friends your going to get hurt or die.
If you know how to defend yourself you can attempt to avoid getting taken down. Disabling or stunning your oppoent then exiting the situation as quickly as posiable.
If you do get taken down and you don't know how to defend your self your going to lose - and lose bad.
Arm bars are totally useless in a real live situation. is there a ref around to end the fight - ? nope.
And unless your trained in how to apply a arm bar - on pavement in cloths, drunk and in the dark your your gonna lose again or get a knife stuck in you by the other guys friend.
You MMA guys think that MMA is real life - no where close to it.
Reply:Not every fight ends up on the ground....personally I've only ended up on the ground twice, first time I managed to escape using jiu-jitsu techniques, second I threw my assailant with a variant on a hip throw and landed between his legs and very quickly scrambled up and elbowed him three times on the temple which ended the fight to my relief :)
Reply:there is no always or n-e thing in the street. What works today may fail tomorrow. I have seen boxers of all styles rule the day, and I have seen some taken to the ground and submitted.
Reply:Not all fights go to the ground,but many do.
I have always tried to avoid rolling around in an oily parking lot,especially in the rain.
Life is all about odds.Odds are that during a fight you may wind up on the ground.To increase your odds of reducing injuries it's best to become familiar with ground defense.
Reply:well if it was a street fight i would just shoot you in the face.. and yes all fights someone will end up on the ground.. through KO or just unable to get up... If someone kick me in the chest and ran... ummm ya.. that doesn't mean the fight is over..... Mean he better be hiding the rest of his life... You only go to an armbar or some other submission move if it is a fight with rules and regulations... no rule means you try to KO them no matter what tear off limbs if you have to... if weapons get involved so be it... don't get into a street fight if you cannot afford to go into a coma or worse...cause $HIT can happen
Reply:i disagree, not all fights end up on the ground.
if your style is not a ground fighting style and you end up there with no knowledge in that area, you might be in trouble :/
however, if your art is a striking standing based art then staying standing and taking people out without ending up on the ground should be a priority.
Reply:u want to take the fight to the ground yourself with a takedown and be dominate
Reply:the loser ends up on the ground.
as for fights ending up on teh ground, some do, but many dont. its all random anyway. I have yet to see a BJJer grapple on the road. only noobs with haymakers rolling around screaming and scratching end up there.
oh, and that knocked out guy. 100% of KO'd people end up there. so avoid that and you avoid most ground issues.
Reply:If you want to get technical, I have to disagree. Not all fights end up on the ground. A lot of times there's just a few short hits with a lot of power and one person is gone before the other hits the ground. And most fights are not really WANTED by both parties, it's just the heat of the moment thing, and sometimes just one right hook is enough to prove the point.
As for when the opponent is on the ground, in a dojo, one does not attack. That would not be self-defence.
On the street however is a different matter. If your opponent gets you on the ground, there's not much you can do.
I was in karate for 5 years; I was a brown belt, and one year short of going to Japan to grade for my black belt when circumstances led me elsewhere, and I've always found it to be quite inadequate when grabbed from behind and thrown to the ground.
When a person's weight is on you and their whole body is blocking your sight, you're pretty much screwed.The easiest way that's done is the attacker uses both arms to encircle the person in front of him quickly and tighty. He knows what he's doing, but that person does not, and it takes the same amount of time for the person to realize he's been grabbed as the amount of time it takes the attacker to sweep the feet and have his opponent on the ground. After that, what happens is up to fate. Speed, cunningness and opportunity all play the key roles here.
As for kicking him when he's down, and then running, I don't consider that self-defense, as you could be half a block away in the time it takes to calculatingly administer a blow of any kind that had force to it. And it's not self-defence to attack an inept attacker.
That sort of thing will have Karma taken over by the people and they'll take care of that. Like in the old days, shooting someone in the back usually got you the same thing.
One of the last tournaments I was in, I was faced with a member of my club in a match of kumite (free sparring) and it so happened that when I advanced with a stomach kick, he turned his body sideways, in open stance, leaving his groin area open, of which I connected squarely with. I had not meant to. He had almost OFFERED it, it seemed. I turned, and knelt, while he recovered, and then, incredibly enough, the exact same sequence of events happened AGAIN! This time, I was disqualified. But I was also very upset, as this was not just an opponent, but also a member of my own club, and a boy I just happened to have a secret crush on at the time. I wasn't impressed. Needless to say, neither was he!
So I think that grappling isn't NECESSARY, I would say that it is INEFFECTUAL in the situation and a method equal to that of the attack. And that every attack and every situation could be nothing but completely unique.
You sent me down memory lane there with your question, and so now you must reap the reward. HA HA!
Reply:Not all fights end up on the ground. I have studied martial arts for many years and have studied different types including: Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Wing Chun, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Learning grappling can do two things: it not only teaches you techniques you can use.... it also teaches you how to defend against techniques. Like it or not... someone that knows how to grapple that takes you down will have an advantage over you if you don't know what he / she is doing.
You use whatever technique is necessary to protect yourself or someone else. And contrary to what someone else mentioned above... there is nothing wrong with running away. Obviously if you are outnumbered grappling would not be effective. You have to pick and choose your fights.
When you fight someone you use techniques you feel comfortable with. If you feel good about standing up and striking then try work on sprawl / ground defense so you don't end up on the ground at the mercy of a choke or joint lock.
I spar regularly (full contact striking and grappling) and have been in tournaments before... but have never had to use anything I've learned on the streets. I know that if it came down to it I could possibly kill someone... although I would just do enough to incapacitate them to make sure that they can't harm me or someone I'm protecting until law enforcement arrives.
All of the masters and teachers I have studied under have taught me to only use martial arts as a way to protect myself and others when I could not avoid any other course of action. As a result, I would only use martial arts as self-defense... not to kill someone unless I had no choice (i.e. if they had a weapon or they were trying to kill me).
It is often a misconception that martial artists look for fights and trouble... people that study martial arts actually tend to look for peaceful solutions to problems and avoid fighting unless they have no choice.
Martial arts really breaks down into two categories: striking and grappling. To be a complete all around fighter you need to learn striking and grappling.
Bruce Lee studied a wide variety of martial arts. He took what he thought was useful from the various styles he learned. and disregarded what ever he felt wasn't useful. And yes... he even studied grappling. If you don't believe me... you can read his book, "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do". There are diagrams of joint locks and other grappling techniques in that book.
If I remember correctly... he arm barred Sammo Hung in Enter the Dragon (beginning scene) and got him to submit (and yes... that was Sammo Hung when he was young. A very young Jackie Chan is in the dungeon scene and gets killed off by Bruce as well).
Reply:90% of fighting end ups on the graound
Reply:97.89% of statistics are made up on the spot lol...
The problem with any statistics is that they are all subject to the relevance of the subject group asked and also the truth of the responses to sureveys...
At the end of the day this figure most likely comes from asking quite reliable sources such as Security Guards and Police offices who would deal with violence as part of their job. Now this in itslef will already skew your data in favour of grappling as due to the laws which govern their profession they are required to try to subdue people not beat them to death so oddly enough this usually always results in grappling.
Anyway, as for is grappling useful for self defence of course it is, anything that you don't know how to deal with is a potential danger to you, however if you just know grappling then you are leaving a rather wide range of things unexplored and therefore exposing yourself to danger...
And remember while it may even be true that most fights end up on the ground... Most fights also start on your feet :-P
Reply:Since the idea of self-defense is to get away safely using as little energy as possible, I think not all fights end up on the gorund. Most fights... sure, but not all. My goal would be to end it quickly, before they get close enough to get me on the ground.
But then again, I'm a TKD Master and most people here would say I'm a wuss.....
Reply:In a real life fight the ground is the last place you wanna be because your opponent or others might decide to kick and stomp you. Bad idea. Also remember that in order to prove what you were doing was self defense you have to prove the other guy was an immediate threat to you. If he's laying on the ground he is not an immediate threat and deciding to kick him in the chest or ground and pound is no longer self defense but rather fighting which is illegal. You then become the aggresor and are then seen as continuing the fight.
Unfortunately a lot of people get confused. martial Arts for self defense is about getting yourself out of a bad situation fast with minimal injury or legal repercussions. Martial Arts for tournaments like UFC on the other hand are about defeating your opponent within the rules of the game.
Reply:No one can say ALL fights end up on the ground. I've heard people spit out percentages like "95% of all fights end up on the ground" but what authority came up with that statistic?
I can say every fight I've seen or been in has started STANDING UP! So you should be well rounded and at least train in some stand up striking art whether it is western boxing, Muay Thai, etc.
I've seen and experienced that a lot (no, I don't have a %!) fights do end up on the ground. (I like to take it there after I've softened the person up with strikes first) so you certainly shouldn't neglect your ground game. Take jujitsu or judo to make yourself a better fighter from any position or range.
Reply:Yes. Yes they do. Either it turns into a grapple or one of the fighters is knocked on their ***. Either way, the fight ends with someone on the ground.
Reply:Well... unless someone runs away (which is often a good idea) at least one person will usually end up on the ground. It isn't necessary for them both to end up there though. It depends how good your defence techniques are.
Reply:if attacked taking a fight to the ground is stupid. because if they attack you most likely they have friends and then ur going to get hurt or die. BJJ is great for one on one fights but has nothing on multiple attackers. that is why i train in Aikido,Ninjutsu,and JiuJistu. good stand up game and a good ground game
Reply:Disagree. Many fights end on the ground, but not all of them. Most fights consist of two untrained fighters. When a fight includes one person who is trained, that person usually dictates the fight, so if he's a boxer, the fight isn't going to the ground, if he's a wrestler, it is. When the fight includes two peopple who are trained fighters, it often goes to the ground because any trained fighters (Wrestler, Judo) can take a punch or two and grab hold onto the person, pulling them down. However, quick Knockouts can happen even in these situaions. Look at UFC's Light-Heavyweight Category, and youll see some of the best strikers in the world. These guys can knock you out quickly. (Which is also why it's probably the most exciting weight category today)
Reply:yes - either you've hit/kicked the other person hard enough to ko or make them fall or that happens to you
then there's the possibility of fighting on the ground
Reply:All the 'Martial Artists' have there huge opinion on how realistic this and that is. Meanwhile mma fighters aren't on the internet, but at the bars beating people up in streetfights, laughing at the thought that anyone would think they stood a chance.
You don't need a ref when you put an armbar on some one, when you break there arm, the fight is over.
To the questioner, it would be more advantageous and more humane to choke someone out then to kick them in the face.
Street fighting mma's will tell you how important BJJ is, and the bottom line is most fight will go to the ground unless broken up really early which isn't really a fight.
And no it isn't a good idea to street fight on the ground, however a Brazillian ju jitsu practitioner has the best chance by far of standing on there feet seeing as how they know all the aspects off what causes someone to fall. Isn't this obvious?
Reply:Are you 10 years old?
To answer your question, statistically most end up on the ground. But that doesn't mean all will.
But your comments! What you would do if this or that happened is not worth speculating about, what happens differs with each situation and you have to call on your training experiences to deal with it there and then. Having techniques preplanned for a scenario will lead to a closed mind and limit your ability to respond effectively.
Bearing that in mind, that you need to draw from training and experience go and learn as many styles as different as possible.
Stop limiting yourself.
Reply:I do not agree that all fights end on the ground if you know what you are doing.
I have fought off from just one up to a dozen before and NONE got me off my feet no matter how hard they tried. ONCE you go down I do not care if you ARE A GRACIE, the other 11 will kick you butt from one side to the other because you cannot grapple 12 people ONLY ONE.
I learned to fight using it like a clock standing in the center and not moving till i have to. Use short, fast quick deadly strikes as each attacks you and use their bodies against one another.
Grappling has its uses but in a street fight rarely will it be one on one and unless it is I DON'T suggest grappling unless you want all the others to kick you butt! Learn to fight on your feet and NOT go to the ground and then learn to fight on the ground to get back to your feet quickly.
When outnumbered you are best to stay on your feet!!
Reply:i think you're a puss man. who runs?
Reply:no dude , you are a puss. dont call yourself smart. if you kicked me in the chest and ran off , I would find you the next day. so if your going to start a fight , make sure you can finish it.
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