Does Judo depend on the Gi for takedowns?

I really like Judo, but I noticed that a lot of the takedowns are based on the Gi. I do NO Gi submission grappling( BJJ, JKD, Wrestling) and I have grappled some Judo guys. I noticed that they kept trying to use my shirt in there takedown attempts, but my shirt would just rip so I would end up taking them down with a double leg takedown. For some reason the single and double leg takedowns seem to present themselves against the Judo guys I grappled.





Personally I am starting to believe wrestling has the best takedowns for NO Gi grappling.





If you believe I am wrong please explain why? But lets keep the name calling out of it! Instead win me over by giving me valid points!

Does Judo depend on the Gi for takedowns?
I would agree that wrestling take downs are normally most effective and Judo relies heavily on the GI. However, when employing a wrestling take down against an opponent who is familiar with Judo/ Jiu Jitsu technique you need to avoid the choke; because it is often available to your opponent who you are trying to use the single or double leg take down against.
Reply:to the person above, if the person keeps their head in a correct position according to wrestling technique a choke is impossible, however many lower level people do not.


as to judo relying on the gi the best way I have heard it said is this "2/3 of judo takedowns can be performed without the gi, but you take away 3/4 of the ways to do them"


yes wrestling does have the best takedowns because, everything as far as takedowns in judo is legal in wrestling, they just don't work often, singles and doubles, while not usually flashy or cool looking(though some doubles are quite impressive) are much more relible, high percentage takedowns.
Reply:You really need to work on using the body grips if you want to use your judo throws. You can use the wrist like you were grabbing the sleeve of the gi. You can also brab the back of their head. I like to pummel and fit one of my arms under the arm pit around there back it gives me a feel similar to Gi.





I think you just need to practice alot. Look at Karo Parsian he always seems to win the takedowns.





Another thing without a Gi you need to be more conscious of level changes. The wrestlers will hit you every time if you stay high and they go low. In Judo it isn't as important because you can use the gi to stop there momentum more easily.
Reply:All the points are valid but a good judo guy should be able to adapt quickly to no gi.The throws use the same concepts of balance and execution, many have the same throwing 'shape' and that's 80% of the hard work. It's just a matter of learning the new grip, or lack of it :)
Reply:Some Judo takedowns do depend on the gi, but many can also be adapted relatively easily to a no-gi situation. For example, Koshi Gurama can be done using the gi, but the only adaptation needed to transistion to a no-gi situation is to grab the wrist of your opponent instead of the sleeve. Koshi Gurama uses a headlock in its basic form for the other hand and you can use the same grip in both a gi and a no-gi situation. Osoto Gari, Ippon seoi nage, and several others can be easily adapted to a no-gi situation.





It seems like the Judo guys you are facing in those grappling tournaments haven't put enough work into their no-gi training. It's not the style in this case, but the artist.





The Double Leg takedown is a valid Judo throw by the way. It is called Morote Gari, or Double Arm Reap.
Reply:First of all the gi is essential for Judo for both safety and to establish a non-lethal grip (as compared to Ju-jutsu which grabs the arms for the purpose of breaking). Ju-do is the humane form of Ju-jitsu.





Judo emphasizes 'throwing' (not take downs). There are real big differences between a wrestling take-down, and a Judo throw. One of the main reasons Judo is not wrestling or grappling. It really is a mistake to call Judo grappling or wrestling.





Trips, take-downs, knock-downs, and dashing down are really not Judo.